Episode 116: Your Team Isn't Resisting AI with Mark Maynard Full Transcript

[00:00:00]

Erik Martinez: Earlier this year, a friend sent me a video poking fun at how often people like me say, "AI, AI, AI." He had a point. I spend ten-ish hours a day in these tools, and even I get worn out by the hype. Here's what I keep bumping into, though. The twenty-twenty six State of AI for Business report from SmarterX found that CEOs and founders are significantly ahead of their teams in personal AI adoption.

And I see that gap in almost every business I walk into. The owner is experimenting with agents and automations, while inside the team, some people are leaning in, some are dabbling, and some are still quietly asking, "Is this actually useful for the work I do every day?" The question I keep coming back to is: what actually moves somebody across the gap?

Which brings me back to the friend who sent me that video. At the start of the year, he was one of the cautious ones. He's not a tech guy. He's a coach, an author, and a speaker who helps leaders connect their purpose to daily operations. And he spends his time with hotels, restaurants, museums, and even a construction company.

Somewhere between January and now, [00:01:00] something shifted for him. And the way it happened says a lot about the people on our own teams who haven't shifted yet.

I'm Erik Martinez, and this is the Digital Velocity podcast.

Mark, welcome back to the podcast.

Mark Maynard: Thanks, Erik. Great to see you again

Erik Martinez: Oh man, I have been looking forward to this. One, 'cause you're fun. Two, you tell great stories.

Mark Maynard: Oh dear

Erik Martinez: three, you got me all pumped about AI journeys,

Mark Maynard: Yeah. I'm on one for sure, right?

Erik Martinez: But before we get to that part of the conversation, Mark, would you just kind of remind listeners who you are, what you do, and who you work with, and all that fun stuff?

Mark Maynard: Yeah, sure. So I work with leaders to help them get clear on what matters to them and their organization, and then help integrate their purpose into daily operations. I work with a lot of people in the service sector, so hotels, restaurants, [00:02:00] but I have museums as clients, and also a construction company, real estate development companies.

Anyone really who has a client, and that's pretty much most of us

Erik Martinez: That's awesome, man. And he's underselling himself. He's an amazing speaker.

Mark Maynard: I'm a speaker. thank you for saying that. I'm a speaker, I'm an author, I'm a coach, so I do it all

Erik Martinez: Mark does all the things, and he's, amazing. So Mark, We're gonna go back a few months. Feels like in the world of AI, a few months is like dog years. Like we've traveled 10 years down the road since the beginning of the year. And I know at the beginning of the year you were, you weren't necessarily anti-AI, but you were kind of like not using it a whole lot.

Mark Maynard: Right

Erik Martinez: Where were you and why were you there?

Mark Maynard: to start with, I've never been an early adopter. so I would say I was AI curious, but, I hadn't really integrated it into my business life. I'd used ChatGPT [00:03:00] specifically, initially for some personal things, you know, helping with recipes or even, you know, I'm traveling from point A to point B, are there any cool places to visit along the way?

that's kind of how I was using it. But it wasn't really until talking to you and a few other people, where I said, I should actually, I think I'm ready to integrate this into my business.

Erik Martinez: Tell us a little bit more about that. Like, what specifically was said or what did you experience to say, like, "I need to start bringing this into my business"?

Mark Maynard: So there's actually a couple of different things. First of all, I think I needed to overcome A certain amount of skepticism before I started using AI more. because a lot of people in the tech world, or I guess a lot of people who are passionate about any subject believe that that thing, that piece of equipment, that piece of software, whatever it is, that new diet, is gonna change the world, right? 'Cause it works for them. [00:04:00] and I had heard a lot of people talk about ChatGPT and Claude specifically, and I was kind of like, "Yeah, well let's wait until it's good." So that was kind of my first thought process. And then I'll tell you the specific moment, or the specific project that really made me realize that I should use this thing was I was working with a client and, I was doing some financial modeling for them. And I had a spreadsheet that I've used for probably 10 years, but this client asked me to do something a little more elegant than I had done in the past. And I was struggling. I couldn't get certain things to reconcile, and I don't know, it might've been you, it might've been someone else who said, "You know, has anyone seen this Claude with Excel integration?

I checked it out and within, I think 15 minutes of me getting it and then writing some prompts, it had solved a problem that I had been grappling with for days. And so I would say [00:05:00] that was my big conversion moment. You know, that was my, you know, lightning bolt coming down from the sky to say, " Okay, this is, this is really a force to be reckoned with."

I only downloaded Claude just for that one particular problem. now looking back, there were a series of conversations with multiple people who use AI that got me ready for that lightning bolt to come. because if I had just seen an ad about, this integration, I maybe still wouldn't have really paid any attention to it, 'cause I would've just thought it was someone trying to sell me something.

But when I heard some case studies from you and about three or four other people, I said, "All right, I should start paying attention now." So that was it

Erik Martinez: Interesting. So it was a very specific problem, but before you, were able to actually say, "Hey, you know what? I should try this on this particular problem," it kinda had to go through this warm-up stage of getting, for lack of a better [00:06:00] term, some social proof.

From other people that you know, like, and trust.

Mark Maynard: 100%.

Erik Martinez: If I didn't know you, right, and I came to you and like, " Hey, Mark, you can solve that problem with Claude. You would be skeptical."

Mark Maynard: Yeah, right. And, it's really understanding where they are in their journey, even if you are really passionate about something, to not try to oversell it because people can shut off.

And I'm one of those people. I lived in New York City for 30 years, so there's always someone trying to sell you something. So if someone approaches you, you automatically assume they're trying to hustle you, You know, even if it's the server in a restaurant saying, side dish would you like?" You know, you're thinking, " Are they trying to get more money out of me?" because that's kinda how I've been conditioned for the past 30 years. and so maybe I'm getting softer now that I'm not in New York City, but, for more than half of my life I was in New York City.

Erik Martinez: I don't know if that's a New York City specific thing. I think, it's funny 'cause I engage with a lot of people on, LinkedIn, and I think that, you know, yes, I am [00:07:00] reaching out because I wanna sell something.

Mark Maynard: Hmm

Erik Martinez: But I also like, "Hey, if you're not interested and you just wanna, like, strike up a conversation, I'm game too," right? And I think so many of us are very skeptical of that thing. But I think what's, really interesting about what you're saying is, you know, I have walked into some businesses and I've talked to business owners who are like, " You know, I don't think my team gets this."

Mark Maynard: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Erik Martinez: And I think, you know, you're a solo practitioner, but your story is similar to what I think is happening inside these organizations.

Mark Maynard: Mm-hmm.

Erik Martinez: I think it was you that said, "AI, AI, AI," and

Mark Maynard: That's

Erik Martinez: that video, right?

Uh,and there is a lot of hype to AI, but there's a lot of practical things to it, too. And I think, you know, this is probably a societal thing. Just look at any aspect of our life, and look at the sensationalism, that surrounds [00:08:00] anything that's new.

Mark Maynard: Yep.

Erik Martinez: Like, this is the greatest thing since Swiss cheese. Well, is it? but I don't even like Swiss cheese. So, you know, it's that kind of thing, and I think what's really interesting here is that your journey, I think, is mapping what's happening deeper in these organizations.

Mark Maynard: Mm-hmm.

Erik Martinez: that people are feeling like, "I still don't understand.

Like, how does this help me do what I do better?" And, there's so much talk in the media about how AI is gonna come replace your job.

Mark Maynard: Right, of course.

Erik Martinez: I think it's creating some other anxiety as well. So I'm curious, you know From your perspective, before you could start trusting, I know you talked a little bit about that, but let's unpack that a little bit further. Like, before you could start trusting the concept of AI and using it in your work, what else had to be true?

Mark Maynard: Well, I think for me, I had to realize that this is neither [00:09:00] The end of the world use of AI. You know, using AI will not bring civilization to its end. And also it's not the savior for the world. So I think I needed to, stop having this sort of absolutist, mentality, which I think a lot of us do, in our culture, right?

Something's either all good or all bad. And so I wanted to learn how could I start integrating it in small ways to have this little proof of concept for myself, right? 'Cause first it was being skeptical because it's new tech, and new tech is never good. You know, we don't wanna talk about it, but it's usually full of bugs and things like that, right?

The second one was hearing other people with some, real-life experience who weren't necessarily tech nerds to say, "Oh, here's how I use it in my daily life." Started with the tech nerds and then sort of more people like me

So I had to hear from some other people how they're using it in their daily lives, and I didn't wanna just [00:10:00] trust people who are tech-savvy. I mean, I use tech every day. We all do, but I'm not necessarily someone who immediately embraces tech. And then I wanted to try it out for myself and see how I could dip my toe in the water with little things in business, not just in, my personal life.

And then when I had that sort of crisis moment for my client, I realized, "Okay, I have to start using this 'cause it has so much more power." And it was really moving to me, I have to admit. watching all of the formulas change before my eyes was pretty beautiful. I mean, it was like watching a really beautiful performance, you know?

Erik Martinez: Yeah, it is really crazy what it can do. Like, I very rarely touch my spreadsheets anymore.

Mark Maynard: Yeah, I bet

Erik Martinez: Maybe once in a while for, small data entry type of thing that would take longer to prompt than to just put the data in. But yeah, to do anything somewhat complicated or whatever, the AI is so much better.

[00:11:00] So I know there's another piece of this, right? So that was like a... I'm solving this very specific, somewhat deterministic problem.

Mark Maynard: Mm-hmm

Erik Martinez: But I know that, you know, in some of our exchanges, one of the things you said to me that stuck was this idea of using AI as a thought partner.

Why did that matter to you, and how do you... how does that play out?

Mark Maynard: Yeah, that was a really important, distinction for how to use AI. And, I'm of the generation where I believe in my own work, right? And there's something about the struggle is actually a good thing. I like doing hard things, you know, whether they're intellectual or, emotional or physical.

Like, I like doing hard things. And I'll admit that I didn't like the idea of using AI for any sort of first sort of primary source material. So I've just written a book. I didn't use AI [00:12:00] at all and I'm gonna put an asterisk on that and I'll explain how I did use it, but in the writing of the book, I didn't use AI at all.

So if you were to x-ray that book, that manuscript, you would see zero AI in there at all, because I never opened it. I didn't ask for suggestions. I didn't do anything like that. And the struggle is important to me, like the process is important to me. But I have used AI in writing, as a thought partner because you and other people planted that idea in my brain and said, being so stubborn," or, "What if you weren't so stubborn?"

And so now, when I'm writing a newsletter or even a LinkedIn post, I will cut and paste the thing from a Word document and say, "What am I saying here?" what do you think my three key points are here?" And I'm using that as a thought partner to help represent my audience, and that is helpful.

So [00:13:00] I'm not at the stage where I want to say to any AI, "Hey, I wanna write a newsletter about X, Y, and Z. Can you write it for me?" Like, for me, that just doesn't seem right. I'm a writer, right? So that just doesn't seem like something I should do as a writer, and yet I use it to make my real writing better. And what I wanna add to that is I think I actually have some evidence for why that is a good thing because anyone who scrolls LinkedIn, I mean, I also do stuff on Instagram and, TikTok, but they're less word-focused, right? I can see an AI post because there's this format that AIs recommend, and whether you're trying to sell cars or software or talk about leadership development, it all sounds the same.

Now, I might be missing out on clicks, but what I sell is my experience and my wisdom, so I don't want anyone to confuse [00:14:00] that with what AI told me to do, you know, my potential client.

Erik Martinez: You know, it's interesting 'cause I use it for writing. I have a slightly different approach,

Mark Maynard: Mm-hmm.

Erik Martinez: And I'm that writer and maybe you are too, but I am that writer that like if you ask me to write an article, by the time I research it, I write it, I edit it, polish it, like a month has gone by for one art- for one article,

Mark Maynard: Yeah, for sure

Erik Martinez: and that's not fast enough, right?

You know, one of my business coaches is like, "Erik, you can't do that. you can't spend a month writing the thing." so what I actually did is I embedded into my writing the foundational five framework we learned at heroic.

Mark Maynard: Right. Oh, great.

Erik Martinez: So, using the foundational five framework, I give it that context, and then it writes.

It's funny that you say you can kind of spot AI writing. It's pulling training data that [00:15:00] reinforces these writing styles. There's a lot of hours I've spent in trying to break the AI-isms, and I'm getting there. It's taken a while to say, "No, I don't want you saying that. I want you to say it this way," because that's the way I would say it or another human would say it . Don't say it this way because, one, it drives me nuts.

Mark Maynard: How are you customized? Are you just changing the prompt, or are you creating a custom GPT for that?

Erik Martinez: I started with custom GPTs, but what I do now is I actually build little micro databases in a markdown file, which is basically just a text file, and it's an instruction document that after every time I, quote, "write something with AI," and I'm doing the air quotes because AI is doing the vast majority of the writing, and I'm giving it all the context of what I want to say.

But we also have this rules database that says, "Here's examples of how to say X and not to say Y." And it [00:16:00] takes time to build that repository, and sometimes I have to use it as a thought partner there as well to say, " How can we say this differently?

Mark Maynard: Mm-hmm.

Erik Martinez: How do we say this in a way that's going to resonate with somebody?"

And it's getting better and better at helping me make sure that I'm not just going down my little freight train of consciousness, and I miss the point. So I use it to help me bring me back to, help me center on what I'm actually trying to say better. But I wasn't a natural writer, that wasn't my thing, right?

Mark Maynard: Yeah

Erik Martinez: I'm getting better at it, but

Mark Maynard: Well, that might be

Erik Martinez: I like editing more than I like the writing part

itself

Mark Maynard: Yeah. And I think like any tool, if it can make you be better at being you, that's a good thing. That's a great thing

Erik Martinez: But I also don't want it to be me all the time, right? I also want it to play devil's advocate and

go, you know, one of the best parts of being a thought [00:17:00] partner is also to say, "Let's take the opposite view

Mark Maynard: Yeah

Erik Martinez: very interesting, some of the listeners would know this if they listen to the podcast on a regular basis, but a few weeks ago I was attending, the Build a Better Agency Summit, and there's this gentleman, his name is Rashad Tobaccowallah.

one of the things he said was, " Just remember, if you have a really closely held belief, whatever that belief is, the opposite of that is also true."

Mark Maynard: Hmm. Hmm.

Erik Martinez: And it just reminded me as an individual, like I can have AI play that opposite side so I

can have perspective

Mark Maynard: Yeah

Erik Martinez: and help . Then it becomes a choice of where to stake your POV.

Mark Maynard: Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's great. And I know someone who also asks for feedback as if the AI were someone particular.

Erik Martinez: Yeah, I've set up some of those. I've picked a couple from time to time. It can be kind of fun too, right?

I think one of the things that people are struggling with, like, in [00:18:00] this AI adoption curve, like, as a solopreneur, we have the ability to just experiment and try different things and, and, you know, we can take risks.

And I think within an organization, like, risk-taking is, for lack of a better word, for the second time today, dumbed down.

Mark Maynard: Yeah. Yeah

Erik Martinez: Because you don't wanna take risk with your client work. You don't wanna take risk and say something wrong. You don't wanna take risk and do something... But, so there's gotta be this thing like, hey, one, I need some personal use cases

Mark Maynard: Mm-hmm

Erik Martinez: That are relevant to me. And personal doesn't mean, like, personal.

Mark Maynard: Right

Erik Martinez: This could be at work personal.

Like, I do this thing every day, how would AI help me?

Mark Maynard: Mm-hmm.

Erik Martinez: And then let people have some time to experiment and learn how to do that. Now, it's been my belief that we've got to work [00:19:00] on individual capability before we can work on team capability.

Mark Maynard: Yeah, and I think even before capability, it has to be individual acceptance before, you know, capability. A lot of people have worked for a boss who has an idea every month, and some of those ideas are major swings from the idea the month prior.

and I think that's a really important thing to not ... even if someone is buying into that boss's, that leader's idea, if then the next week they say, or the next month they say, "Oh, that idea was crap. We're gonna try this new idea," that creates whiplash, and that breaks down trust between leader and subordinate, and that creates its own problems.

If you and I make a mistake or change our minds as a solopreneur, we're not impacting anyone else necessarily, whereas if you're leading 100 or 500 or 5,000 people, that's a bigger rock being dropped into that pool, And so I don't [00:20:00] necessarily see it as risk aversion. It's just more like understanding that my decision makes bigger waves than if I just made it by myself.

Erik Martinez: I'm curious though, you know, I think all of that is true. But, you know, the other thing I have heard you say, right, like there's gotta be some trust that is built at the beginning of this. Like, here's why we're doing this, why we're trying to do this, right? that leadership explanation at the beginning, but then also some demonstration.

Like, it's really interesting because I've been working on putting together some workshops and things like that. And, you know, as I'm working with Claude and ChatGPT on this, a lot of times, like even the market research that's coming out is saying, "Nobody wants prompt training."

Mark Maynard: Mm-hmm.

Erik Martinez: I understand that because we all think we know how to prompt at this point. But it's like, hey, you know what? If I'm learning a new language, and let's say that is, French. I'm gonna [00:21:00] pick French 'cause I don't know French, but I'm gonna learn French. That'd be like saying, "Hey, you know what? I'm gonna learn French, and what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna read this book on French learning, or I'm gonna listen to the audio thing, whatever, and within a week I'm gonna be able to speak French fluently."

Mark Maynard: Right

Erik Martinez: And I think we're having that same challenge here. So, if you were to go back to the beginning and say, okay, once you kind of got over the AI hype and then some people who you know, like and trusted started saying, "Hey, here's some things you can do with this.

Mark Maynard: Yeah

Erik Martinez: Is there anything, would you have liked to have some prompt training or feature training, or what would have helped you get along .

Mark Maynard: Yeah. I think I might have even done it in reverse way before understanding the how-to, understanding what it's gonna save me in some [00:22:00] way. Going back to the Excel thing is just really helpful. Okay, so wait, what can this do and how does that help me?

So in this case, Tom, to say, if you work on a complex business, you have a lot of X's and O's, you right now might spend five hours to do something. what if you could do that in an hour, and still have it be more accurate, and give you time to do other things,

How would you feel about that? And then, you know, that's kind of like a sales question, right? But I'm assuming this is not a sales situation. Say, okay, well, that sounds like a great outcome for me. So instead of working 10 hours that day, I work seven hours. That sounds pretty good.

Show me, you know? and you know, I think especially with, you know, when I- I'm going back to thinking about how I learned, how to use QuickBooks.

I was always surrounded by accountants. And so when I went out on my own, I needed to come up with a bookkeeping software, solution.

And so what did I do? I went on YouTube, and I just watched a whole bunch of videos, and these were all things that I thought I knew how to do, but I always had [00:23:00] someone doing it for me, and it was really helpful, to just watch a whole bunch of five-minute videos. and for whatever reason, I didn't do that with AI 'cause I kinda didn't know what outcome I was looking for.

Whereas with accounting software, I was like, well, I'm a new business. I need to understand how to bill people or how to collect revenue or how to analyze my results, How to bill for my hours, So I knew the question. So in your case, to answer your question, those were my prompts.

How do I do something using this new tool that I've done for 35 years but have never had to do myself,

Erik Martinez: I think what's really interesting about what you just said is you're talking about an outcome-based approach to the whole thing, and I think people confuse goals with outcomes.

Mark Maynard: Mm-hmm.

Erik Martinez: I think they're related, but they aren't necessarily the same thing, right? And an outcome can have multiple goals

Mark Maynard: absolutely, right

Erik Martinez: to achieve, right?

to achieve the outcome, we've got to do [00:24:00] these five things, and those are the goals or the milestones that we have to hit in order to achieve the outcome. But I think the other thing that's really interesting about what you said was because of the outcome mentality, I- it was... I had... I just interviewed, Jess Loseke.

And Jess, and her husband own this company called Midwest Barrel, and basically they resell used whiskey barrels is basically what they do. And they were really, like, one of the first players to ever do that.

But she's deploying AI in her organization they're not a big team. And, she said, you know, " Everybody goes to efficiency. I'm going for the things I can't do right now."

Mark Maynard: Right

Erik Martinez: And neither one of those is wrong. Like, those are two different perspectives, 'cause efficiency, at some point you run out of things to get more efficient at

Mark Maynard: Mm-hmm.

Erik Martinez: Whereas if you're building some new capability, that's pretty cool. And neither one is wrong. but both of [00:25:00] them can be outcome-based.

Mark Maynard: Right

Erik Martinez: we're trying to do X.

Mark Maynard: Yeah

Erik Martinez: We want to be... In one year, we want to be able to do this particular thing 30% faster, but we wanna be able to sell more, give more capabilities or more features to our customers,

Mark Maynard: Mm-hmm.

Erik Martinez: and not spend any more time doing it. That's an outcome.

Mark Maynard: I have a great use case for, how I very recently in the past couple of weeks used AI to really improve a client experience. I was working with a client and they were creating a whole new way of operating their business. A whole new way. And this is not a technology thing.

This was their company where they were changing their standards. And in the past year they've gone from 40 to 80 employees, and their two-year plan is to double again. And they realized that they needed to have a standard way of operating in order to make sure those 80 new employees are doing it by the [00:26:00] book.

So they created a series of, what they call playbooks for each role in this organization. It was a massive project for them. And they asked me to help them align everything to their organizational purpose, 'cause that's how they know me, for that I'm the purpose guy. And when I first looked at their playbooks, I had to have a very blunt conversation with the president of the company, and I said, " These are outrageously boring, and no one's gonna wanna read these even though they're incredibly important." So he said, "Well, Mr. Expert, what do you think? What do you need to do?" I said, "Well, I think you need to really connect these important technical processes to your organizational purpose, and the best way to do that is by storytelling." And he said, "Well, our launch is eight weeks away, and I don't know if we have time for storytelling."

And I said, "Well, let me see what I can do." And I created a little plan with him, and I said, "I'd like to interview [00:27:00] these 12 people and get their origin story, how they ended up at your company, and why the values of your company are important in their day-to-day lives." And I had to do 12 one-hour interviews, and then a debrief, and then a summary, and then find places in all of these playbooks, each one was 100 pages, so it was over 1,000 pages of, material, where we could integrate these stories into the playbook as a this is why this matters kind of thing.

And there's no way on this earth I could have done that without AI. Because first, I recorded every conversation using Fathom, which is AI-based. And then I took those summaries and I took the playbooks and I put the summaries in with the playbook of each person and said, "How do these stories that this person has told me, relate to this playbook?" [00:28:00] And it gave me ideas, and then I could help rewrite the playbooks. So that could have been a six-month process, and I pulled it off in four weeks.

And it was massive. Still a lot of work for me, but it probably saved me 50 hours of work time. And the ultimate outcome for that was we then created a whole separate presentation where the people who wrote each playbook, they were the leaders of this company, presented the playbook, but they didn't talk about anything in the playbook.

They talked about their stories. And the assignment was, "Okay, now you all need to read this playbook, but keep in mind these stories." And it was an outrageously successful launch. That was only two weeks ago, so we don't know how the, adherence to the playbooks is going to be, but it was very memorable for people to be connected to the stories, the purpose of the organization, and now the technical delivery of [00:29:00] what they do for their clients, that people need to do their technical job right.

In fact, it's a construction company, so it's very important that they do it right because

Erik Martinez: Absolutely. For sure

Mark Maynard: But what they're gonna remember is, "This is why I'm doing this thing, because this engineer told a story about here's what happens when you don't follow building standards. Buildings collapse."

So that's what they're gonna have in the back of their mind when they're making sure they measure twice before they cut once.

Erik Martinez: Yeah, for sure

Mark Maynard: So AI was not just a thought partner. AI was my co-pilot. That wasn't even intentional that I said co-pilot. I did not use co-pilot. I used Claude on that one.

Erik Martinez: It's okay. And, you know, I think what I heard out of that particular story is you had a very specific problem and outcome, which is really introducing this new methodology for this organization in a way that would resonate with the people who work there, and you used AI [00:30:00] to create the capability to do that in time for the launch.

That's a great example of how you have shifted.

Mark Maynard: Oh my

Erik Martinez: 'Cause over here, right, way over here, like, we were talking about, hey, I fixed some formulas in a spreadsheet

Mark Maynard: Mm-hmm.

Erik Martinez: to solve a very specific problem, and now I'm changing an organization and the way they interact

Mark Maynard: Mm-hmm.

Erik Martinez: with their business processes by doing this.

That's a, really interesting thing, and I'm curious, what was the most surprising thing about that exercise to you?

Mark Maynard: Well, the most surprising thing is how well it worked. But what I mean by that is it was once I figured out the process that I wanted to use, you know, how do I take this information and paste it into that information and do the comparison, which that was hard on the first two, but [00:31:00] the next 10 were a lot easier.

Um, just how easy it was. It was, it was outrageously easy. Now, my point on all of this is that I was keying off of the word efficiency Efficiency was not the desired outcome, depth was. So the president of the company has no idea how hard or easy it was for me to do this, but what he got was a deeper relationship with his employees and the material, which is what every leader wants, is they want to make sure that their employees embody the processes and certainly the philosophies or the mission of the company.

And so he got that, but he might think I'm a genius or he might know that I did use AI, but, it enabled me to be a better version of me, which I thought was really fantastic because I didn't have to focus on the admin. I could focus on what I do best, which is helping [00:32:00] people tell their stories and connecting dots from a philosophical point of view. So I was pretty impressed.

Erik Martinez: That's awesome. That's amazing, Mark. I think that's a really impactful example of how AI can be used in a transformational way that makes everything better.

And yeah, was there some efficiency in there? Yes. But like you said, that wasn't the purpose. I'm curious now, like having gone through some of the evolution from the beginning of this year to now, what still frustrates you with using these tools? Like, you know, not only as a practitioner, but viewing this from the lens of, hey, even within my clients.

How does this impact the individuals within the organization?

Mark Maynard: I'll admit that I don't find it frustrating for myself. I am more fearful that people aren't going to do the first few steps of thinking And that is a real fear [00:33:00] that we're all just gonna end up being the same You know, kind of like I was talking about with those LinkedIn posts.

And as human beings, I believe we actually do each have a unique perspective, and I do believe that even if two people are aligned politically or religiously or, or emotionally, they still have a slightly different perspective which makes life more interesting. And my fear is that people will just be like, "I'll just let AI decide."

You know? "I'll just ask ChatGPT what I should do." And that's a fear of mine because I like using my brain, like really hard. I like being frustrated. I do it for the struggle. I mean, I was in the restaurant business for 30 years, you know.

Erik Martinez: a daily struggle for

Mark Maynard: yeah, daily struggle, you know.

so I guess I'm not really necessarily frustrated, it's more fearful.

Erik Martinez: I totally see that. Even when I'm working with this stuff, you know, 10-ish hours a day every [00:34:00] day. I have some technical frustrations with, like, stuff that worked that didn't work, that's not working now that worked a half an hour

ago.

Mark Maynard: Yeah

Erik Martinez: That, that's one frustration.

I, I think my big frustration right now is that Something just popped up on my screen. it knows I'm talking about it, so it's like, "Don't talk about

Mark Maynard: Oh, hello.

Erik Martinez: No, but I think my frustration's s- similar to yours, like not outsourcing our thinking to the AI, and I think there are some places where that's appropriate. But your judgment, your taste, your point of view, that perspective you're talking about, those aren't things that the AI...

The AI has no lived experience. It only has training data,

Mark Maynard: Yeah.

Erik Martinez: Which is the amalgamation of millions and millions and millions of people without n- necessarily understanding their context, right? All it can see is what was input. So I think that's a really important point. Two more questions.

We've talked about several [00:35:00] times throughout this episode about people in organizations. There's frustration, there's fear, there's stuff. So if you were talking to one of your clients and they go, "Hey, Mark, I know you're the purpose guy, but you're also... Like, you're embedded in our organization and how we do.

And it could be AI, it could be something else, or reading, a whole set of new processes and procedures. What is the advice that you would give them about those people who aren't moving as fast yet?

Mark Maynard: Yeah. I think to me this is one of those classic go slow to go fast kind of moments. And really start by gathering data. And in this case, it would be having conversations. If I had 1,000 employees, I would probably do some sort of survey about, what's, challenging in your job or, how could we make your job better?

You know, the process of your job better, not better snacks in the kitchen necessarily. I had a smaller organization, I'd [00:36:00] probably do one-on-ones or small group sessions by department and just ask, "Hey, what are your pain points in your job?" And come up with a series of problems that you can solve as a leader, and then think about the tools you can use to solve those problems.

Inevitably, AI is gonna be one of the tools for at least half of those problems. And I think that is something that too many people with any new technology or new idea is they don't ask the question first, and it's something I've had to learn when I'm not the boss. I mean, I like to think I was a pretty good boss, a pretty enlightened boss, but now when I'm serving clients, of course the agenda's always theirs.

And if they don't wanna do what my ideas are, that's my problem, not theirs. So I need to ask them a bunch of questions. And so we should treat our employees and the people who report to us the same way. And then say, "What are some solutions you've thought about?" And the best [00:37:00] case scenario is when the solution comes from the people who report to you, even if it's not the exact solution.

"You know, I don't know why we're not using AI." "Okay, well, let's talk about that." And then you might get other people to chime in, and so then instead of them following you, you are enabling them. And that is, to me, what we all should do as leaders. We want to empower the people who report to us. Now, is it possible that certain organizations are gonna resist any new technology?

Yes And in that case, you maybe have to be a little more direct, a little more assertive, a little more persuasive. But all the time we need to put it on how this will make their lives better

Erik Martinez: Yeah, I think that's exactly right. And, you know, I had the pleasure last year of interviewing team members from two small, mid-size companies, like teams of about 20 people, and I got to interview every single person. Some in a [00:38:00] small group setting, and it was very interesting to learn, where they were, what they felt, where they struggled, and it informed a lot about what needs to happen next.

So I think that's great advice. So moving to close, if you were to leave, one last piece of advice for leaders and owners listening to this episode, what is the one thing you'd, want to leave them with? What's the one thing they can do tomorrow?

Mark Maynard: Start wherever you are If you are a tech-curious person, dive deeper into the tech and start using it. If you're a skeptic, educate yourself or talk to someone you trust about tech and think about some potential avenues you can follow to start not even embracing the tech, but just trying it out, learning what it's like to try it out, and then trying it out, and then seeing what you like and don't like about it.

You don't get better at [00:39:00] anything by reading about it. You only get better at running by running, writing by writing, singing by singing. And so the use of AI is no different. So start wherever you are and see what happens.

Erik Martinez: That's awesome. Mark, thank you so much for gracing us with your knowledge and your wisdom. if somebody wants to reach out to you, what's the best way to get in touch?

Mark Maynard: Fantastic. I am, on LinkedIn, MarkMaynard ACC, because I am a certified coach. I also have a website, MarkMaynardSpeaks.com, so you can find me there.

Erik Martinez: Awesome, Mark. Well, I really appreciate you coming on and sharing so much of your time with me. You are a generous soul, so thank you, thank you, thank you.

I keep thinking about Mark's journey. He needed to know how AI technology can help him be better, not just faster. For those of us who are ahead of our teams on this stuff, that reframes matters, because a lot of what we read as [00:40:00] resistance is really just people on the team who haven't met their version of Mark's spreadsheet problem yet.

Mark didn't move because of an ad or a demo. He moved because a few people he trusted told him real stories, and then a problem he'd been wrestling with for days got solved in fifteen minutes.

So here's something to try tomorrow. Sit down with one person on your team and ask a single question: What's the most frustrating part of your job right now? Don't mention AI, just listen and write down what they say. If Mark is right, and I think he is, at least half of what you'll hear will point toward a problem these tools can help with.

And when the introduction comes from someone they trust, aimed at a problem they already own, you won't have to sell it at all. Thanks for listening to this episode of the Digital Velocity Podcast. Have a fantastic day!

Narrator: Thanks for listening. If this one hit home, pass it along to someone who's working through the same stuff. Leave us a review if you get a chance, and check out digitalvelocitypodcast.com [00:41:00] for more. See you next time.